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MGLC Council Meeting Minutes
Special Meeting, September 27, 2005
Members Present: Todd Treml, Steve Hanson, Shelly Halverson, Sue Schwedler, Erik Scott, Dave Palm, Mike Eggers, Laura Winge, Paul Backer, and Geoff Jones
Members Absent: Steve Wagner, Kathy Bruha, and Patty Branch
Steering Committee Present: Jim Raabe, Bob Johnson, Chad Thomas, Erik Skie and Diane DeMarais
Staff Present: Pastor Durk, Pastor Chris and Melinda Nelson
There was technology difficulty to begin the meeting, so Todd shared about the Org. Team and what they have been working on. They have met weekly for the last six to eight weeks. Their recommendations fall in line with Kairos report. The new council will be a governing/vision body. They will have six committees in place, Worship, Discipleship, Parish Life, Caring, Outreach and Operations. New structure shouldn’t be age driven and it shouldn’t be gender driven. Caring is caring whether you are 6 or 60. They will make a final recommendation in November and suggest changes to the by-laws. You must give a 60-day notice before the by-laws are changed.
Melinda asked that when we are doing the budget process to think about these ministry areas. We can create more line items in your areas, if needed, but with a potential shift to this in May, budget planning should be done with this in mind.
Todd handed out ministry charts listing the programs that fall under each area. Please share these with your ministry teams and give him feedback. How does it look? Missing anything?
Pastor Chris opened the meeting with prayer.
Jim Raabe began a PowerPoint presentation on the recommendations of the Steering Committee.
Options Considered:
Build on Fernbrook
OR Sell Fernbrook AND build new on current site
OR Sell Fernbrook AND remodel space and build sanctuary.
New building on current site will have sanctuary in the middle with wings going off on either side. Remodel would put the sanctuary on the backside of the building.
All sanctuary designs are the same – 600 seat (expandable to 800). It is very similar to our first sanctuary design from the Fernbrook plan.
Fernbrook is not viable because 28,000 sq. feet (minimum site plan for first phase) would cost $10.8 million. This would require selling this facility first (estimate $2M), grow and wait, sufficient holding costs. We would need a 3 to 4 million capital fund appeal to make this happen.
Recommendation #1 – Sell Fernbrook – this is consistent with the Kairos recommendation.
Considerations:
- value uncertain (est. 3M to 4.8M gross)
- will buyer pay some or all of the assessments?
- broker fees (2 to 3%)
- timing 12 to 24 months – best guess
- net of debt unknown
Variables:
The Fernbrook land is zoned now for High Density Residential – it would need to be rezoned – hopefully to a multi-use zoning.
What happens with hospital and when?
Scenario – we get 4 million – may be able to pay off all debt with a little cash available.
We need to continue to look for ways to remove excess dirt. It was commented that the City of Maple Grove would like to communicate with developers more than with citizens. Sell the property and then get it rezoned. It is in the city’s best interest to rezone.
Is it viable to hold onto the land for the future? There would be a lot of risks.
Council Resolution proposed by Steering Committee – Recommendation to congregation to authorize steering committee to engage broker to sell the Fernbrook site.
Council authorization to Steering (as proposed by Steering Committee):
- Negotiate and engage broker (est. 2 to 3% for fees and incentives)
- Minimum sales price sufficient to eliminate debt
- If lower, requires council approval.
There was a claim put on our property when we terminated the agreement to sell the current building. Streeter sent an invoice for $85,000. Our deal was – when you sell, you are paid. If you don’t sell, no payment. We haven’t paid Streeter anything. The next step would be legal action. Who would be selecting our broker? The Steering Committee would. Everyone in the room agreed they didn’t want it to be Streeter. We were cautioned that we might need to work with Streeter, as his group MinneAspen owns the other 8 acres next to ours. Ken Streeter did offer to buy our land that day after his invoice came. We would work with him, if it were in our best interest. Would 20 acres sell better than 12? We have 12 acres and they have 8.
Building Options – Current site
Entirely new building - $6.1 million – we would use our current structure while the new structure is being built. This plan would have +25,000 square feet.
Remodel current facility and add new sanctuary - $4.6 million – can be expandable. This would be easier to do in phases.
What is the number of parking spaces needed? We currently have 220 spaces, we would need 320. If we build bigger than 28,000, we would have to build a parking ramp or ask for a variance.
Entirely New Proposal Option
$6.1 million doesn’t include FF&E (furniture, fixtures and equipment). $6.8 million if FF&E included. It would be expandable +25,000 sq. feet. Does the remodel meet long-term needs? Timing and Scope is uncertain – all or nothing? Sell Fernbrook, complete capital fund appeal before determining scope and timing. We don’t have the borrowing capacity to do this without selling Fernbrook. Can we be sure we can afford this option? New plan would provide long-term programming. Need 2 million capital, if we sell Fernbrook. Commit on pledges to 1/3 of construction costs. We would need to do perpetual capital fund drive – actually this is necessary no matter which option we choose.
Sanctuary + Remodel Option
$4.6 million
Meets program needs for congregation
Allows immediate remodel or sanctuary construction
Eliminates uncertainty
More easily phase able
Banks would allow us to borrow at a higher capacity because of the plan and we could begin remodel sooner. Negative about this plan – perpetual construction phase.
Recommendation from Steering Committee: Sanctuary + Remodel
We would need congregation recommendation to:
Engage architect
Do a capital fund drive
Finalize borrowing base
Assess phasing and timing
Remodel plan could be new sanctuary added on, old sanctuary could be classrooms, gym could be fellowship/multipurpose space. Steering Committee has already had to look at the shell to determine cost effectiveness. Building Committee would help determine inside needs.
What would remodeled sanctuary look like? Of the 4.6, how much is sanctuary?
Approximately 2.7 would be sanctuary, 1 million remodel including a kitchen, rest would be incidentals – site prep, architect, etc…
These are all rough estimates – Chad, Bob and Greg have been talking with people, but the design work hasn’t been done. Cost per foot for sanctuary on this site would be the same per unit as at the Fernbrook site. Approximately $95./foot for renovation. 10% contingency has been added to each plan number. The remodel number includes FF&E.
Question about the order of magnitude between the two projects and if there was enough of a difference. Discussion.
Question – can we do a remodel we ALL feel good about? There will be limitations on the remodel. Discussion.
Pursue remodel first – for borrowing base. Communicate options we are considering that will allow us to proceed sooner rather than later.
Question – why can we add a sanctuary now? When purchasing Fernbrook land we were told sanctuary couldn’t be built on that corner. The sanctuary has been turned differently than before – shifted to the west to the more open spot. There are trade offs to accommodate this space – we are looking at creativity in this, i.e. hallway, atrium into sanctuary area.
Motion was made by Shelly to move to recommend to congregation to authorize steering to engage broker to sell Fernbrook site. Second by Paul. Discussion. Erik amends motion to allow council to approve steering committee’s negotiated amount of minimum net proceeds sufficient to eliminate debt. Much discussion. Not wanting to make this process take longer, but wanting to get the most amount for the land, in the best interest of the congregation.
Erik said that we needed checks and balances in place – at least one elected party be allowed to review,
- reason is expeditious – council can convene quickly if needed.
- secret society that we heard about in Kairos report – accountability. We trust steering committee, but this is about the message we send.
- If Streeter is involved – no accountability.
- Weakens our negotiating position – we could accept terms that are anything above a specific price.
Steering Committee needs to know the parameters in which to sell? They need to know to begin this process. Durk advised that council is in charge of clear communication.
What will they pay? What assessment is? What broker fee is? = OUT OF DEBT
Steering Committee wants prior approval from congregation if we can achieve goal of “debt free” can we negotiate for the congregation on the sale and then go to council for approval? If not achieved, come back to council, then to congregation.
Motion on table was withdrawn.
New motion: Council recommends to congregation to authorize steering committee to engage broker and to negotiate and recommend the sale of Fernbrook site subject to council approval. Steve Hanson motioned, Paul seconded – all approved.
We need a 2/3 congregational vote to approve this at congregational meeting.
New motion: Council recommends to congregation, per the Steering Committee recommendation, that we approve a building committee (appointed by council) to pursue design phase of remodeling the existing facility and the addition of a sanctuary. Steve Hanson motioned, Erik seconded – all approved.
Todd talked about a facilities team and what does that look like. Building Committee could expand.
What is the pace? When can congregation expect action? Need congregational approval first!
We need a capital fund drive – we do not need a congregational vote to do that.
Meeting suggested of October 16 at Noon – must notify the congregation two weeks before a congregational meeting.
Order of events will be determined by – steps that must take place, if this, then this – too early to make promises yet. Design first – then congregational approval. Capital fund appeal – then plan of phasing.
Chad suggested that the sell of land comes first, but we deliver vision about renovation and begin with this process. Sell of land triggers sanctuary building. If we would begin sanctuary now, if would put us in a financially risky position.
Ongoing communication – start on some renovation. Need to give presentation at the meeting – put issues/questions on the table. Announce at each service regarding the special meeting. Perhaps do an information session before the voting session. Todd should run both meetings.
Laura advised that she has been talking to Kairos and they are planning a February 1 kick off for a three-year capital fund appeal. Contributions would start March 1. General offering campaign will take place this fall during October – November 13 and November 20 are Stewardship Sundays.
We need to get questions and answers ready – does the meeting on the 16th of October allow us time to prepare? Not really. Don’t want to meet MEA weekend, as we want as many members present as possible. Like the idea of an information meeting – time to process and digest information, instead of coming in, being presented with options and asked to vote immediately. This way people can be more prayerful and thoughtful.
Plan of action for meetings/preparation:
Tuesday, October 11 – 7:00 pm – Steering Committee, Kairos and Executive Committee will meet to put together presentation.
Sunday, October 30 – Information presentation at Noon
Sunday, November 6 – Congregational Meeting at Noon to vote
Monday, October 10 – letters regarding these meetings and what we are voting on will be sent to all congregation members – Pastor Durk and Todd will draft the letter, Melinda will send.
Send any questions that you have about this process to Jim Raabe. If you have the question, someone in the congregation must have it too. His e-mail is jim.raabe
selectcomfort.com.
Shelly will have the minutes done and sent by Saturday, October 1, 2005.
Meeting adjourned with Pastor Durk leading us in prayer and all praying the Lord’s Prayer at 10:00 pm.